That might be the fatal flaw of democracy--too easy to control and manipulate. As Netanyahu said, America is very easy to move. And the larger, the easier. Athens was a lot smaller than the EU (or US) and the suffrage was restricted, and even then their Golden Age ended in tyranny. But they did have a Golden Age that shines to this day.
When we read Plato in college, we read the Dialogues in roughly chronological order and I totally loved him at the beginning--rather, I loved Socrates--but, Plato was still under Socrates' direct influence and was in his 30s when Socrates drank the hemlock and died. Plato continued to write, leaving Socrates as his main character. As Plato gets older, Socrates changes and by the time of Plato's Republic, when Plato is an old man and Athens is descending into violence and turmoil, Socrates is for banishing poets and setting up a dictatorship of philosopher-kings and all sorts of reactionary stuff. I figured Plato had strayed from Socrates' influence and turned into a less admirable, fearful old man, so I cordoned Socrates off and left him on his pedestal and became somewhat dismissive of Plato.
Noooowwwwww, however... I've put some miles behind me and discovered that the shadows on the cave's wall really were shadows on the cave's wall after all and I was one of the people I thought I was observing from the mouth of the cave.
My own civilization is disintegrating, and I feel more charitable toward Plato and have been meaning to reread the Republic.
At its inception the Athenian democracy was based on two principles :
Firstly only (male) citizens by blood were able to vote.
Secondly, every vote had equal value; the reasoning was that every citizen was raised with the same high morals, values and education to be able to make a solid decision on matters of the City (Acty).
Every citizen could be elected for a limited time only. With the exception of the ten generals representing the ten Athenian tribes which were selected for life to ensure the protection of the City.
There is no comparison with what today is paraded as "democracy". Today's western democracy is the old Greek oligarchic political system (the few being in charge).
Ultimately, even democracy failed thanks to the manipulation of the citizens by the demagogues. No one is immune after all to manipulation of their emotions even if they had high education.
I believe though that the reign of the philosophers may be a solution to it all. But that is another discussion.
I was just reading something I'd never come across before. A claim that the Cult of Apollo was a subversive "democratic" force under the sway of Persia and its priesthood--bitter enemies of Plato and Socrates (starts pg 20)
That might be the fatal flaw of democracy--too easy to control and manipulate. As Netanyahu said, America is very easy to move. And the larger, the easier. Athens was a lot smaller than the EU (or US) and the suffrage was restricted, and even then their Golden Age ended in tyranny. But they did have a Golden Age that shines to this day.
When we read Plato in college, we read the Dialogues in roughly chronological order and I totally loved him at the beginning--rather, I loved Socrates--but, Plato was still under Socrates' direct influence and was in his 30s when Socrates drank the hemlock and died. Plato continued to write, leaving Socrates as his main character. As Plato gets older, Socrates changes and by the time of Plato's Republic, when Plato is an old man and Athens is descending into violence and turmoil, Socrates is for banishing poets and setting up a dictatorship of philosopher-kings and all sorts of reactionary stuff. I figured Plato had strayed from Socrates' influence and turned into a less admirable, fearful old man, so I cordoned Socrates off and left him on his pedestal and became somewhat dismissive of Plato.
Noooowwwwww, however... I've put some miles behind me and discovered that the shadows on the cave's wall really were shadows on the cave's wall after all and I was one of the people I thought I was observing from the mouth of the cave.
My own civilization is disintegrating, and I feel more charitable toward Plato and have been meaning to reread the Republic.
At its inception the Athenian democracy was based on two principles :
Firstly only (male) citizens by blood were able to vote.
Secondly, every vote had equal value; the reasoning was that every citizen was raised with the same high morals, values and education to be able to make a solid decision on matters of the City (Acty).
Every citizen could be elected for a limited time only. With the exception of the ten generals representing the ten Athenian tribes which were selected for life to ensure the protection of the City.
There is no comparison with what today is paraded as "democracy". Today's western democracy is the old Greek oligarchic political system (the few being in charge).
Ultimately, even democracy failed thanks to the manipulation of the citizens by the demagogues. No one is immune after all to manipulation of their emotions even if they had high education.
I believe though that the reign of the philosophers may be a solution to it all. But that is another discussion.
I was just reading something I'd never come across before. A claim that the Cult of Apollo was a subversive "democratic" force under the sway of Persia and its priesthood--bitter enemies of Plato and Socrates (starts pg 20)
https://canadianpatriot.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/8102-Truth-about-Plato.pdf?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
I’ve learned a lot of really interesting history from Matt and Cynthia, see also Rising Tide Foundation, I highly recommend.
Excellent! The first paragraph says it all.